"As long as a new song is a bathroom-going song for the audience, I'm not going to play it. I'll only play things that will keep you in the audience."
Dee Snider: Hello.
Wikimetal (Nando Machado): Hi, is Mr. Dee Snider here, please?
DS: This is Dee Snider, how are you?
W (NM): Great. This is Nando from Wikimetal in Brazil, and I'm here with Daniel, one of the show's presenters. How are you, Dee?
DS: I'm good, man.
W (DD): Dee, this is Daniel, one of the show's hosts. I just want to start by telling you that I was watching a documentary called "The History of Metal" on VH1 the other day, and they show in great detail your speech at the Tipper Gore PMRC, and man, I was thinking, "If I ever have the opportunity to talk to Dee at some point in my life, I'm going to have to say, 'Thank you so much for doing that; it was one of the most phenomenal things anyone has ever done for the Heavy Metal community.'" So, on behalf of all Brazilian Metal fans, thank you, man.
DS: You're welcome. Thank you for saying that, it means a lot to me. And really, it's kind of amazing that in the United States now this is part of history, they teach it in high school classrooms when they talk about censorship, they teach about what I went through in my speech and there's practically not a day that someone doesn't tell me what you said, which really flatters me.
W (NM): OK, Dee. We're very happy that Twisted Sister will be coming to Brazil again for the Live n' Louder festival in April. What do you think makes your show so unique and relevant after so much time since the band formed?
DS: You know, that's a really good question. Sometimes it amazes me how crazy people get about Twisted Sister. I think we're a unique entity, even in this era, which is crazy. Our energy surpasses most newer bands, and we have a style that's not done anymore – it went out of fashion in the mid-90s. And now it seems to me that very few bands really continue with those reckless, intense – and almost possessed – performances, which is how I like to think of mine, as if I were almost possessed. You don't see these possessed performances very often, and people – especially young people – they go crazy when they see that kind of musician. It's the best.
W (DD): Very well, Dee. At the beginning of your career, back then, you struggled for almost a decade to release your first album. How important was that period of your career in shaping Twisted Sister's style?
DS: I think… you know, it was really cool. I recently wrote a book, and all the words were written by myself, it's called “Shut Up and Give Me the Mic” – unfortunately not yet available in Portuguese – and I had the chance to look back on my life, look at all those years, and it really gave me the opportunity to better understand how things happened. And I believe things happen for a reason. And Twisted Sister, when we started, we weren't like any other band; we liked glam and that kind of thing, but we were more of a fun band, more “sex, drugs and rock n' roll”. And I was young and arriving in the US, I was sure that… “Man, I'm in this really cool band, we're going to be discovered any minute now and everything's going to be crazy”. And the years went by and anger grew inside me, a frustration, which began to reflect not only in my performances, but in my music – in the songs I was writing. So I don't think "We're Not Gonna Take It" and "I Wanna Rock" would have been written in Twisted Sister's first or second year. Those songs were written in sixth, seventh, eighth year, during years of struggle, when anger and frustration were building. So I think it was important to go through that for Twisted Sister to develop the kind of representation and music that people love us for.
W (NM): Great. Dee, I'm going to ask you to choose a song. We have a classic question on the show that we ask all the interviewees. Imagine you're listening to your iPod on shuffle or to the radio and a song comes on that makes you lose control and you start headbanging wherever you are. What song would that be for us to listen to now on the show?
DS: There are a lot of songs like that… OK, a lot. Actually, I was riding my exercise bike at home and we had some construction workers working. And when I ride my bike at home or run, or whatever I do, I listen to music. I was in the middle of one of these songs when a construction worker opened the door and saw a lunatic on an exercise bike going crazy and making weird faces. And he just looked at me and ran off! But even though I love “Still of the Night” , the song that came to mind when you asked the question was “Exciter” by Judas Priest.
W (NM): Judas Priest with “Exciter” on Wikimetal!
W (DD): Why do you think Hard Rock became so popular in the early 80s and lost popularity so quickly in the late 80s and early 90s?
DS: Well, I've thought a lot about these things. Metal and Hard Rock built their popularity rapidly in the early 80s thanks to MTV. I mean, it was always popular and had a following, but MTV started airing in 1982. They were looking for more visually appealing bands and discovered that many of the popular bands were also very unattractive, they didn't represent well. And yet there were bands like Maiden, Sister, and bands like that that were visually interesting, they always have been. So that helped to get the movement going. Now, what happened, however, in the late 80s, was that once Metal became popular, the industry took over the music. That's what the industry thinks; the music industry and the big companies think that if one is good, a hundred are even better. And that's the biggest load of rubbish. But they think, "Oh, Twisted Sister and Mötley Crew, let's sign a bunch of bands like that!" So they started signing any band that wore tight pants and had a "flying V" guitar and long hair. Then in the late '80s, that's when Bon Jovi came along, and they were smiling with their "happy metal" and people liked it more and more, so "let's sign more 'happy metal' bands now!". So the record labels revamped, destroyed, and then gave the music a lot of exposure. And by the late '80s and early '90s people were tired of it – it was cheesy, it was fake, it was contrived. You had the same songwriters, the same record labels, the same stylists, and the same video directors doing all the bands. They started to look the same, so people got tired of it.
Clive Burr worked through the lyrics, which helps explain his unique playing style.
W (NM): Yes. You reunited the band with the original lineup after a long time, what is the relationship like between all the members of Twisted Sister today?
DS: Well, you know, I can't take credit for getting the band back together. First of all, I want to acknowledge AJ Pero, our drummer, as the person who, during the 15 years we were apart, was kind to everyone and always tried to bring us back together. But the big thing was 9/11. When that happened, the little things, the differences between us… We all wanted to do something to help and we were doing shows with Anthrax and Sebastian Bach to help raise money for the victims. And it was for a good reason, it wasn't for money, it wasn't for any reason other than helping people. And one of the first shows we did was the troop and benefit shows. So we found a very good reason and realized that the things that were important when we were 20 years old seemed stupid now that we were 40. I mean, you look back and think, “Was I crazy?” I think you've heard that story from people like Steven Tyler and Joe Perry too. You know, when you're younger, things just explode in your head that seem huge. And as you get older, you think, "That's not a big deal. Cancer? That's a big deal." But you know, "Oh, that guy was dating the same girl I was dating, or something like that."
W (DD): Yes, that was a good reason to restart Twisted Sister. Now, can you choose a Twisted Sister song that you're very proud of for us to listen to now?
DS: Well, as the sole songwriter for Twisted Sister – and I wrote every single song myself – I love them all, they're like my little children. But when people ask me, “What's your favorite song?”… well, it's not just one of my favorites, but it also defined Twisted Sister for me and showed that at its core, we are a Rock n' Roll and Heavy Metal band, first and foremost. And that song is “You Can't Stop Rock n' Roll” .
W (NM): We recently heard the sad news of Clive Burr's passing. You had a great band with him called Desperado. What can you tell our listeners about your relationship with Clive and why this band didn't continue?
DS: Well, Clive Burr and I were in a band called Desperado, and we developed a project for three years – it was a project we were all passionate about. And it was almost ready for release in 1990. And right before the release, the guy who signed us left the label in a bad way. And as a "fuck you" to him, the label cancelled all the projects he was working on. So he left and went to work for another company, and they said, "Screw you guys, we're going to cancel all the projects." And I said, "What do you mean, all the projects?" and they did, which means they cancelled the Desperado project and several others. And it was a horrible time. I had given so much of myself, they had put half a million dollars into the project, I gave three years of my life and spent a lot of my own money, I was going bankrupt for the first time after that… It was terrible for all of us, a downward spiral. But let's not talk about that, let's talk about Clive. Clive Burr was an incredible drummer and defined Metal… He helped define Metal drumming, that guy. And his drumming defined Iron Maiden. Those first three albums – I love Nicko, he's great, but he's just doing what Clive was doing on the first three albums. Clive and Steve and those guys, they defined the Maiden sound with Clive's drumming. And his style is very unique. He's the only drummer I've ever worked with who couldn't finish his drum part before knowing all the lyrics to all the songs. And as a songwriter, sometimes we'd be working together on something in the studio and I hadn't finished everything because we were still experimenting and he'd say, "What are the lyrics to the next song?" and I hadn't finished and he'd say, "Man, I need them!" And I'd say, "Why do you need the lyrics?" and he'd say, "Because that's what inspires my drumming." If you watch him play, you'll see him singing along to all the songs. And no other drummer I've worked with had that. They work through the bass, the guitar, but Clive worked through the lyrics, which helps explain his unique playing style. Now, the answer I want to give is that Clive was very ill for many years, and I feel blessed that I hadn't spoken to him in the last two years. And it was his birthday; I saw it on my calendar, and I had discovered some videos of Desperado rehearsing, which you can find on YouTube. We never did any live shows, except for one, but that's a long story. And I wanted to tell him, so I called him, and he was so… Multiple sclerosis had destroyed so much of his motor function that he couldn't speak, he just made murmurs on the phone, and it was very sad. But when he handed the phone back to his wife, she said, “I don't know what you told him, but he's smiling from ear to ear.” And I said, “I just read a column by Bruce Dickinson that said the best drummer Iron Maiden ever had was Clive Burr. And that he wished they had given him more time to deal with his things so he could still be in the band.” So, Nicko was the only other drummer and he still is; so it was a powerful statement from Bruce Dickinson, and it made Clive so happy. And two years later he died in his sleep. And I’m glad I got to talk to him, make him smile before he went. It was very sad.
W (DD): Dude, thanks for sharing this story, it's an amazing story.
Celine Dion recorded a song I wrote for my wife, the only song I didn't write to release myself. We call the house we live in today 'the house Celine built'."
DS: You know what? In honor of Clive, we're going to play an Iron Maiden song. You were probably going to say that, weren't you? But I know which one I want you to play, because Clive was very frustrated that he didn't get songwriting credit for this song. He said, "This song started with me playing a beat on the drums. We were rehearsing and I started playing… and that got Steve started." And this song is credited to Steve Harris, but I think Clive certainly played a part in the creation of this song – probably Maiden's most legendary – "Run to the Hills .
W (DD): We're almost finished with the interview, but before you go, just out of curiosity, can fans expect a new Twisted Sister album? And what do you think about Celine Dion recording one of your songs? Is it true that she didn't know you wrote this song?
DS: First of all, regarding a new album: don't hold your breath, because there's no real motivation on my part, as a songwriter, to write a new Twisted Sister album; I feel like I'd be going back to the future, writing old songs today. And guys, I'm talking to you now because you're listening and you know who you are. You know what happens when an old band plays a new song? The minute the guy says "this song is from the new album" we can see you! You go to the bathroom! And you know it's you! And I'm not talking about one or two, I'm talking about a thousand people. They're going to get a beer… You want to go to the bathroom, you want a beer? Wait until the drum solo. That's a new song. So as long as a new song is a bathroom-going song for the audience, I'm not going to play it. I'm only going to play the things that will keep you in the audience, the things you really want to hear when you go to see Twisted Sister, and that's "Burn in Hell , "You Can't Stop Rock 'n' Roll , "I Wanna Rock," " We're Not Gonna Take It" —that's what you want, that's what you're going to get, baby. So, Celine Dion recorded a song I wrote for my wife, the only song I didn't write to release. It was originally called "God Bless Everyone ." Suzette, who I've been with for 37 years, she did all the clothes, all the makeup, the hair, the logo; Suzette is the little woman behind the monster and the band, she's been with Twisted Sister from the beginning. Anyway, she told me one day, "Hey, I want you to write me a Christmas song." And I said, “Are you crazy? I’m the rocker, Dee Snider,” and she says, “You’re a classically trained countertenor – which I am – you can write me a Christmas song.” So, one day I’m working on other things, Twisted stuff, and I get an idea. So I write this song; it’s not a long Christmas song, it’s a pure Christmas song and I can’t even sing it, I hire musicians and record it as a gift for my wife and give it to her that year. Well, one of the studio engineers, his name was Rick Wake, said to me, “Dude, can I have a copy? Because it’s a really good song, someday someone’s going to want to record it.” And I said, “Sure, whatever.” Years later Rick Wake becomes a Grammy-winning producer; huge, Mariah Carey, Celine Dion… Name anyone… Jennifer Lopez… platinum albums, Grammys. And he calls me and says, “Hey man, are you sitting down?” and I say, “Yeah, why?” And he says, “Celine Dion wants to record your Christmas song.” And I said, “Does she know I wrote it?” And he said, “No, I haven’t told her yet.” And I said, “Don’t tell her that Satan wrote your Christmas song.” I was going through a bad financial period and that album sold 8 million copies; then she and Rosie O’Donnell recorded a duet and it was sung by eight other people and we named the house we live in today “The House Celine Built.”
W (NM): Thank you for sharing this, Dee. We've reached the end of our interview, I hope I haven't taken up too much of your time. Could you leave one last message inviting all the Brazilian fans to the show in April?
DS: Listen here, you maniacal Metal fans: I see your tweets, I see your Facebook comments saying “Come to Brazil! Come to Brazil!”. Well, we’re going to Brazil with none other than Twisted Sister, okay? So you better show up and I want you to live up to your reputation as the craziest Metal fans in the world. And I’m one of the people who spreads that around. So don’t disappoint me, get ready to headbang to Dee Snider and Twisted Sister.
W (NM): Twisted Sister on Wikimetal!
W (DD): Thank you so much, man, it was great talking to you. I hope to have the chance to talk to you again because you have some really good stories, so you'll always have all the doors open at Wikimetal, man.
DS: Thanks, man, I loved talking to you guys and I'll see you backstage at the festival, I'm sure you'll be there.
W (NM): We'll definitely be there.
W (DD): Thank you, bye, Dee.
DS: See you later.
W (DD): Bye.
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