And I think that throughout all these years, Refuse/Resist hasn't aged."
Max Cavalera : Hello.
Wikimetal (Nando Machado) : Hello, is this Mr. Max Cavalera, please?
MC: You're talking.
W (NM): Hi Max, this is Nando from Wikimetal, how are you? I'm here with Daniel, Max Cavalera again. It's a great pleasure to talk to you again, how are you doing Max?
MC: Hey man, how's it going?
Wikimetal (Daniel Dystyler) : Everything alright, Max, this is Daniel. The first time you participated in Wikimetal I couldn't participate, so for me it's an honor to be talking to you for the first time. Actually, it's not the first time we've spoken, because we used to play soccer together back when you lived in São Paulo, we played soccer occasionally, but this is the first time we've interviewed each other, welcome to Wikimetal.
MC: Thanks. Good to be here, good to be here.
W (NM): Actually, we've been hearing about Max playing soccer since Parque das Hortênsias, do you remember when you lived in that building in Parque das Hortênsias?
W (DD): In Angélica.
MC: On Avenida Angélica, of course. Near Barra Funda.
W (NM): Before you went to BH, there was a little court there where people used to play a bit of soccer.
MC: Yeah, I wasn't very good, I was kind of... kind of scrappy, you know? I didn't play very well, but I could break a sweat, at least. But it wasn't anything professional.
W (DD): But it's a good thing you found your calling later, right Max?
MC: Yeah, thank goodness, right? Because I used to play soccer with Igor, and Igor would get mad when he lost. Igor doesn't know how to lose, and when he lost, I'd kick the ball into the other yard, take it home, and he wouldn't let anyone else play. And when he lost, he'd go inside with the ball and wouldn't let anyone else play; the game was over.
W (NM): Very good. Shall we begin?
MC: Let's go.
W (NM): Okay, speaking of Soulfly, how's the completion of Savages going and how did you choose Terry Date to produce the album?
MC: Oh, okay. He said it's coming out on October 1st, either the 1st or the 4th, one of those days, I'm not sure exactly. But it was super cool to make the album with Terry Date. Terry Date is a super professional of mine. I've known him since I worked with Deftones on Around The Fur, where I did the song Headup, right? That's when I met him, and our friendship continued over the years, and he always came to our shows in Seattle. He's been to ten different Soulfly shows already, and the last time he was at a show, I talked to him and said, "Oh, let's work together, after all these years." He mixed Dark Ages, right? And Conquer, but he never did a whole production, so I decided to invite him to do the whole production of Savages. It was really cool, and wow… He killed it. And it's my favorite work I've ever done with any producer, for me it's Savages. I think it's the coolest thing, and he was the coolest producer I've ever worked with, and I think you have to take your hat off to him for the sound, for the calm he maintained in the studio, and the vibes he sent to us, to the band, were very positive and resulted in the final CD, which for me is really good. It's strong, it's a strong Soulfly CD that a lot of people are going to like.
W (DD): That's great. And Max, your son joined Soulfly replacing David Kinkade, how was that process, how was his acceptance by the rest of the band?
MC: Zyon was… I had already taken him to Brazil, right? For the Brazilian tour, at the São Paulo show, in Rio he played with us. We liked him on drums because he brought a lot of energy, right? He's young, he's 21 years old, so a young drummer full of energy, full of new blood, so that was the idea I had to put him on drums. It didn't work with David Kinkade, he couldn't play the old songs, he was more of an extreme drummer who plays mostly Death Metal, so he couldn't play the old songs. So I needed someone who could play everything, and Zyon can play everything. So I decided to invite him to do a new CD with me, Savages, he plays drums. And for me it's a dream, right? For any father to record with his son like that, Zyon's heart opens the Chaos AD CD. It's twenty years later and he's playing drums on an entire album of mine, for me it's a father's dream. So it was really cool, and he did a very good job, I'm proud of him. But I don't want to take him away from the band he's in, which is with his brother, called Lody Kong, and it's really cool. So I don't want to interfere with his band, so he's just on loan to Soulfly. So... it's just a "loan," he made the album for us, and then we'll find a drummer in the future to continue with Soulfly.
It seems like the reunion with Sepultura is never going to happen, the guys don't want to do it, so I've even given up on the idea."
W (NM): But it's really cool, I went to the 2012 show and he's playing really well. Funny that he's skinny, right? And... he really packs a punch, doesn't he?
MC: Yeah, he plays a lot like his uncle, Igor, right? Who is one of my son's favorite drummers, his uncle Igor, who taught him a lot, and I think even their styles are similar, right? He plays hard, hits hard, and really pounds the drums. So for me, that kind of drumming is cool, because David wasn't like that, right? David played very lightly, you could hardly hear the snare. So when I played with Zyon, who really pounds the snare, I'm more used to drummers like that, or my brother Igor, who also pounds the drums. It's like Igor says, "If you keep hitting like that, she'll confess, right?"
W (NM): Hey Max, let me ask you something, you made a video a little while ago talking about the protests here in Brazil, you were probably one of the first artists to speak out, which is ironic because you haven't lived here for that long, but even so you have this formed opinion about the absurdities we experience here, you know it well. Do you think rock has lost some of its critical element and that artists are not actively involved in these political issues?
MC: Yeah, I think a little bit. It was something I really wanted to do. I was following what was happening online, and I was shocked and said, "Wow, I think it would be cool to do something." Then I had the idea to do something online, put it on the internet, put it on YouTube. And I thought it was cool. I was one of the first people to do any kind of protest like that, and I even said that if people want to protest, if they want to use the music like Refuse/Resist, which is based on protest, it's a protest song, for me, I would be proud if they used my music as inspiration for the protest, you know? And it was a heartfelt message, it was something really done from the heart, there was nothing involved. There was no money involved, nobody paid me to do it, it was a spontaneous thing, from the heart. Just me sending a message to people, a message from the heart. Even though I don't live in Brazil, I've been following the protests, so I thought it was cool and it had a really good impact; a lot of people saw it and liked the message I conveyed, right?
W (DD): Hey Max, since you mentioned Refuse/Resist, we have a question we ask everyone who participates here at Wikimetal: imagine you're listening to music on your iPod and there are millions of Metal songs playing, and suddenly a song comes on that makes you lose your mind, that you have to start headbanging, no matter where you are, you can't control yourself, you completely lose control. What song is that, so we can play it here at Wikimetal?
MC: Look, Refuse/Resist is one of those, you know, one of my favorite riffs I've ever written. I think the only one that comes close is the new one, which is from Bloodshed, the first new Savages song. It's another riff I really love, and I'm proud to have found it. But Refuse/Resist will always be in my heart. It's a protest song, a real trouble song. When I close my eyes, I always just see crowds, chaos, and shouting, and like you said, headbanging has to start from the very beginning, right? I still play it live today, so it's a favorite song, it's always on the setlist. Simple lyrics, but it really hits the nail on the head with the idea, this rebellion, this protest thing. So, it's simple lyrics, but powerful. And I think that throughout all these years, the song hasn't aged, unlike some songs that go out of style and don't work anymore, but that's not the case with Refuse/Resist. I think it's still pretty cool, very contemporary even today.
W (NM): And you just released the Bloodshed video, do you get involved in those promotional strategies for releases? What's the difference between these marketing strategies for releases nowadays compared to twenty years ago?
MC: Ah, I'm still involved, right? Making videos is cool for me. I think young people nowadays come to YouTube, and a lot of people watch videos. So, a while ago, you'd make a video and it wouldn't get anywhere, so some videos we made ended up not going anywhere. But nowadays there's the internet, so people like to search for videos and watch them. I think it's cool to have a platform to watch videos. And then we made the new Bloodshed video, which is going to be really cool. We're dressed as warriors from the American Civil War, which is a really bloody period in the history of the United States. So we got some uniforms from that Civil War, and we're in uniform playing the song Bloodshed, and my son Igor is in the song, he sings with me on the chorus. And I think it's going to be a cool video, it's going to be different, it's going to have some different images, and it's a video with the band, unlike the last video, which was World Scum, which didn't have any band and was just one…it was kind of like a movie, right? So it's cool to have a video with the band again, us playing the music, headbanging, feeling the energy of the music. Like I said, Bloodshed is one of my favorite hits that I've ever written in my entire career, the beginning of that song is very powerful for me, and I think that whoever sees the video, whoever hears the song that will be the single, which is the first single from Savages, will immediately feel the strength of that song, the power of the music. So I'm really excited about the new CD, I think it's going to be really cool, and there's a lot of cool stuff on the album, there's a song with the guys from Clutch, Napalm Death, a song in Portuguese called El Comegente, in Spanish and Portuguese, and it has everything. The complete CD. So I think people are going to really like Savages.
W (DD): Okay, and I'm going to ask you to choose another song, now a song... well, like the first one you also wrote, but now I specifically want you to choose one that you wrote, that you are very proud to have written.
MC: From Soulfly, for me, one of the songs I like most from Soulfly is Eye For An Eye, which closes every show, it's the official closing song, and we always play it last, and it's really cool. I like the simplicity of Eye For An Eye, because the truth is, if you only have one string on your guitar, you can play Eye For An Eye with just one string. So I think that's what's cool about Eye For An Eye. It's super simple, it's simplicity to the max, it's almost punk, right? The whole song is three chords, it doesn't change much, but the chorus is strong, right? Everyone sings along to Eye For An Eye, right? It's very powerful. And it was the first song I wrote after I left Sepultura, so for me that's also a historical fact, the first song I wrote when I felt all that… everything I was feeling at that time, kind of anger, sadness, everything together. So a lot of emotion, right? It ended up being done in the song "Eye For An Eye," which for me is still one of my favorite songs from Soulfly's first CD.
W (DD): And now we're going to listen to Eye For An Eye, and you mentioned that this was the first song you wrote after you left Sepultura. The last time we talked, you made it clear that you'd be up for a jam session with Sepultura. Has there been any indication of that happening since then, or not?
MC: Nothing happened, man, this whole story is messed up, I'm already kind of fed up with hearing about meetings, meetings that are never going to happen. It seems like it's never going to happen, like the guys don't want to do it, so I've already dismissed the idea, man, I think it's not going to happen for me, it just won't happen. Life goes on, I have other things to do, I have Soulfly which I'm busy with, there's Cavalera Conspiracy which I'm going to do the new CD next year, and there's the book that's coming out in September, there's another project I'm doing with Greg from The Dillinger Escape Plan and Troy from Mastodon. So I'm busy, so I don't even have time for meetings to tell you the truth. So it doesn't matter to me anymore.
W (NM): Hey Max, we're running out of time to talk to you. First of all, I wanted to thank you for everything you've done since, I don't know, probably '83. So it's an honor for us to be talking to you, the doors of our modest podcast, of our website, are always open for you. I wanted you to leave one last message for your huge Brazilian audience.
MC: Hey man, big hug to everyone. I can't wait to be in Brazil, we're going to rock it, shows in Manaus, in Brasília, at Circo Voador, it's going to be so cool. I can't wait to play the new song Bloodshed, play everything the crowd wants to hear, old stuff, new stuff, and a big hug to everyone. Thanks for the support and encouragement.
W (NM): Great. We'll be at Carioca on the 25th, have a good trip, and a hug to everyone at your house, we're all in this together, man.
MC: Thanks, man, take care.
W (NM): Thanks Max. Bye, bye. Thanks.
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