We don't want to preach anything, we just want to inspire people to think about the government and what's going on."
Jon Schaffer (JS) : Hello.
W (Daniel Dystyler) : Hello, I'd like to speak with Mr. Jon Schaffer, please.
JS : It's him.
W (DD) : Hi Jon, this is Daniel from Wikimetal in Brazil, how are you?
JS : I'm good, man, and you?
W (DD) : Excellent. Is it okay if we talk for a bit now?
JS : Yes, no problem.
W (DD) : Just to give you some context, I'm one of the hosts of the Wikimetal program, which is the biggest Heavy Metal and Hard Rock podcast in Brazil. And it's a great honor to have you on our show, because everything you've done for Heavy Metal for over 25 years has been truly great. So, on behalf of all Brazilian headbangers, I'd like to thank you and welcome you to Wikimetal.
JS : Well, thanks, man. It's good to see you guys have a cool podcast.
W (DD) : Jon, I'll start by asking about the old days. What are the main influences that Iced Earth had in creating such a different and good sound? And who were the main musicians that made you choose the guitar as your instrument?
JS : I would say that all the dynamics you hear in Iced Earth came from everything from Pink Floyd to heavier stuff. I would certainly cite Iron Maiden, Steve Harris in particular, as my biggest defining influence when I was a teenager. When I started the band, he made me the composer, lyricist, visionary, and leader of the band; he was always the guy I admired the most. He's probably the one who has the biggest influence on me. Later, Roger Waters, Pink Floyd, he's a great composer, he's really amazing. So, there were many influences. But the reason I play guitar is undoubtedly Ace Frehley, because I saw Kiss when I was eleven and that night I decided what I wanted to do with my life. I didn't have a guitar until many years later, four or five years later, but I really decided. That's when I started to get to know Iron Maiden better and decided the direction I wanted the band to take. I used to listen to Alice Cooper when I was little, and Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Judas Priest, Blue Öyster Cult, all those 70s rock bands and all the old wave and new wave heavy metal bands, those were the big influences. I didn't play their music, I never played many covers, but I listened to them a lot and smoked a lot of weed while listening… I'm sure it had some kind of influence on me.
W (DD) : Jon, speaking a bit about the new album, I think that since “Night of the Stormrider”, almost all Iced Earth releases have had a conceptual context, if I may say so, with the “Something Wicked” saga probably being the most evident example of this approach. Tell our listeners a little about this new album and this very cool concept of “dystopia” being the opposite of utopia.
JS : Yes, I really have difficulty writing without having some kind of entirely conceptual album. I consider an entirely conceptual album as a single story. Often these songs are based on a theme, like in "The Glorious Burden," for example, which is about discourse throughout history, and "Horror Show," which is an album based on horror films. And other albums, like "The Dark Saga," or "Night of the Stormrider," or "Something Wicked," are entirely conceptual albums. I have difficulty when I don't have a theme for an album when I'm in the songwriting process, because I want to visualize the theme when I start writing; what direction we're going in, what the ideas are for the cover art, how we can make the music fit into all of that, so that everything is cohesive in some way. That's how I write, it always has been. Except for the first album, which is different, because I wrote most of those songs when I was a teenager. I didn't really know what I was doing, but I wanted to properly and historically document it so that if I were to do this for the rest of my life, people could see how I started. If I could have released the music during the time I wrote it, it would be the "Night of the Stormrider" stuff, because most of that album had already been written by then. I wanted to release the old songs so there would be a real document of how the growth and songwriting developed. So that's what the album is, because it doesn't have a theme, it's just a collection of songs. But yes, I started to change the way I write. But as for "Dystopia," I think it's a creative way to get people thinking politically without being too political. It's a look at some real problems we're going through, but veiled by literature, science fiction, 'Tolkien-esque' themes; unfortunately, a lot of bad things are happening to us. I didn't want it to seem like we're preaching something or anything like that, we just want to inspire people to start thinking about what our government does and what's happening, you know?
You can take any moment in human history and apply it to the 'Something Wicked' universe and you'll have fantastic stories.”
W (DD) : Yes, it's a great way, in my opinion, to shed light on certain issues and raise awareness. I remember when I was a kid and I was reading "V for Vendetta" for the first time; I was amazed. So I can relate to young people who listen to Iced Earth and will probably feel the same way listening to this new album.
JS : Yes, that's the goal. "Sons of Liberty" is a pretty direct punch in the face, the message is there, it's all very much related to current problems. This – Dystopia – is just a more subtle way of doing the same thing, because I never wanted Iced Earth to be a political band. We're not even talking about politics. It's about human freedom, the freedom of all humans, not just Americans, not just Brazilians, everyone. And the idea of… I believe that human beings are born, knowing it or not, with a flame inside them; a flame that they deserve and that they should cultivate, and our governments are losing control all the time, certainly here in the West. There are serious problems happening; ever since I started studying history, ever since I started reading, I've had some very serious concerns, because the flames are going out, and I just think that good people should reconnect with their humanity. They really need to get involved and start to understand and educate themselves about the direction we are heading, why we are heading in this direction, and how we can turn back, because we are not taking a good path.
W (DD) : Since you mentioned this and talked about this conceptual approach that Iced Earth has, the "Something Wicked" saga is an incredible story, and I don't think Brazilian fans have had the opportunity to hear you explain what it represents. I know there's a lot happening in the story, and it's very difficult to summarize, but would you mind talking a little about the plot in general and about the 10,000 "strongs"?
JS : Yes, that's very difficult to explain because it's a very complex story. You know, the weirdest thing is that I wrote this story in 1997 and it hit me like a lightning bolt, the whole idea. It's really strange, I can't even explain it… it just came to me and it was all there, it was a very strange thing. I have a friend named Jamal, who lives in Bosnia, he interviewed me and said, “Man, this whole 'Something Wicked' thing could be real,” and I said, “Oh, come on, man, it's just a story.” And I'm not saying it's real, but the more I understood what was happening in my country and around the world and how things are manipulated in the shadows and the financial system and everything else, I thought, “Wow, maybe my subconscious understood things much earlier than my conscious mind.” There's a lot involved, I can't go into too much detail now because one day there will be a book, hopefully a comic book…
W (DD) : A movie.
JS : I hope for a movie. The "Something Wicked" universe is... its story is as big as the Star Trek or Star Wars universe; you can take any moment in human history and apply it to the "Something Wicked" universe and you'll have fantastic stories. That's what's cool, so it's too deep to explain everything; it would take hours. It would require another level of explanation; we couldn't do that, and we wouldn't have the time. But what I recommend to people is to read the lyrics and get to know the artwork of the last two albums, listen to the music and the sound effects. You get carried away and can imagine whatever you want; everyone can interpret the story in their own way.
W (DD) : Yes, I know, it's very difficult, because it's such an incredible story and I really hope it becomes a movie or a comic book or something like that in the future. Jon, we have a classic question that we ask all interviewees. Imagine listening to Heavy Metal music on the radio or on your iPod on shuffle and a song starts playing; a song that makes you lose control wherever you are, what song would it be? We can hear it on the show now.
JS : Oh man… I’d probably say a new old song from one of my favorite bands, Volbeat, and this song is called “Pool of booze, booze, booza”. This song is really cool, it’s on their first album, I love this band. This is the only band I’ve been listening to lately that really… you hear good stuff, but these guys have something special, they make positive and fun music and it appeals to everyone. I’m sure there are people who don’t like it, like with everything. My six-year-old daughter loves Volbeat, I love Volbeat, my mom too. They have something that appeals to multiple generations. They’re amazing and it’s a really fun sound, it’s the first upbeat thing I’ve heard in years.
Stu is a killer. He fits perfectly into the band.
W (DD) : Regarding Stu Block, he's singing very well on the latest album. What was the process like creating some songs with him, and what were his live performances like singing Tim and Matt's material?
JS: Well, first of all, the material doesn't belong to Tim and Matt…
W (DD) : Yes, sorry, it was interpreted by them.
JS : Yes, they were instructed to sing, as always, so it's funny when people say that. It's been really great, he came in and contributed a lot to his part, which is rare actually, since in the past I always did the vocals, up to 90% of the melodies, the lyrics, and he helped me a lot. You have someone who comes in and gets involved in those parts… and not only gets involved, but focuses ideas. I'm not going to do someone's part that isn't good for the band or the overall picture. Stu, he… when it comes to catchy melodies, he's great. So that adds and takes some weight off my shoulders. It's fun working with him and he contributed his parts and with this process there's always a lot of fun. We have really good chemistry. As for live performances, he's killer. He fits the band perfectly, there's no doubt about that. The band chemistry is the best we've ever had and the fans feel it. You have to see some videos on YouTube, we're on fire, man, and people react to it. There will always be people who can't let go of the past, and that's okay; there are plenty of albums they can listen to. But Iced Earth is moving forward, and we're going places, not just around the world, that we've never been before, taking this band further than it's ever gone before, I guarantee it. Some people can't let go of the past because of whatever illusions they're stuck in, and that's okay. I'm just saying the band is moving forward and it's working, so…
W (DD) : You have a legion of very young and teenage fans, in addition to long-time fans, and these young people love your band's sound and attitude. What would you say to a young person who is thinking about starting a band or pursuing a career in music?
JS : I'd say you have to be really tough to handle a lot of things. It's good to be focused and determined and watch your back, that's what you have to do. It's a very tough way of life, but it's quite fulfilling if you can make it happen and keep it up. Against all odds, but… it's not glamorous, there's a lot more involved in this business. When I was a kid it was all "I'm going to start a band" and all that crap, like every young person, without realizing the reality of the situation. I only realized what I was getting into six months after signing my first record deal. It all really works against you. It's hard… get the glamour out of your head if you're going to start a Heavy Metal band, because there's nothing glamorous about it… if you reach Metallica's level, if you can, if anyone can ever do it. It's hard work, man. Sorry, I just got a text message.
W (DD) : No, that's very good advice. Jon, can you choose an Iced Earth song that you're proud to have written, so we can hear it on our show now?
JS : Dude, I'm proud of all of them, otherwise I wouldn't have written them. You can choose whatever you want, do you want something new?
W (DD) : Yes, that would be great.
JS : “Dystopia.” It’s my favorite. I don’t know, it changes every day, I’m proud of the whole album, but I really like “Dystopia.” It has an angry tone, it works as an introduction, as the beginning of a new chapter.
Brazil is one of the most incredible places and people in the world.
W (DD) : We Brazilians – and probably everyone – grew up with a very strong passion for Ronnie James Dio and Black Sabbath, and we know you've done some Sabbath covers. Is there any chance we'll see that live at your next shows in Brazil?
JS : Hm… actually I doubt it, because it's Iced Earth stuff that people want to hear; so we don't normally – actually, rarely – do covers, we have done a few. Believe me, I also love Ronnie, he was a great mentor and probably the most sincere and incredible person I've ever met. He really was the best person I've ever met in my life, because you don't get to know many real people when you're with Ronnie, because Ronnie was a real person, a great person… so, I don't see us playing covers when we go to Brazil, because the fans want so many different things from Iced Earth's repertoire, we can't waste time with covers or guitar solos or drums and all that, when we could play the original Iced Earth songs.
W (DD) : Speaking of which, do you know any Brazilian Heavy Metal bands? What's your connection to the country?
JS : Obviously Sepultura, and I remember the old Sepultura. I haven't heard any new Brazilian bands, I don't know if there are any up-and-coming melodic metal bands worth listening to, but I'd like to hear some, so…
W (DD) : Yes, Shadowside is a new band… well, not exactly new, they've been around for ten years. They're doing quite well in the United States and Europe, it's called Shadowside.
JS : Shadowside? Never heard of it.
W (DD) : The vocal is female.
JS : Okay. Is it melodic or death metal?
W (DD) : No, it's melodic, but it's not classical like Tarja Turunen, it's something between Nightwish and Arch Enemy.
JS : Okay, I'm interested in listening, for sure.
W (DD) : So, we're almost done. Can you leave a message for all the Wikimetal fans who are listening and invite them to the Iced Earth shows in Brazil in March?
JS : Of course. We are truly grateful for the support we've received from Brazil; it's one of the most incredible places and people in the world, and we're very excited to come back and see everyone again. We're going to put on a great show, with a lot of power, a lot of energy, and possibly the most intense Iced Earth show ever, so you can expect that.
W (DD) : Once again, Jon, thank you so much for your time and I hope to see you backstage at the show in São Paulo on March 25th.
JS : That would be great, man.
W (DD) : Excellent, thank you very much. Bye, mate.
JS : Bye.
