"There is no longer prejudice against women in the music world."
Wikimetal (Rafael Masini): Hey guys, starting another Wikimetal, a special program where part 1 generated a lot of buzz, everyone commented, loved it, asked for part 2, and we're starting part 2 of the program now... Nando Machado.
Wikimetal (Nando Machado): Women in Metal Program. Woman and Metal. It's a program that was promised three months ago when episode 42 aired, which was the Women in Metal special, and it's really cool to do this program. Isn't that right, Daniel Dystyler?
Wikimetal (Daniel Dystyler): That's right, Nando Machado, and this is a program that, as you said, is very important and also very different because it's the first time we won't be a Power Trio. In fact, we'll be a kind of fantastic quartet because instead of us normally following an interview script when we have a guest, here we have an illustrious presence who will help present the program with us, will conduct the program with us. That's why today it's not a Power Trio, we are four people. Before introducing our guest, it had to be a woman for a women's program. I just wanted to say more or less what I said in episode 35 about André Matos, where I gave my personal opinion, "André Matos is the greatest national vocalist." So I wanted to introduce our guest, Dani Nolden, in my opinion the greatest female vocalist in Brazil.
Dani Nolden: It's a pleasure to be here with you all today, and it had to be a woman to be part of the fantastic four, right?
W (DD): That's right. Rafael is the Thing.
W (RM): He's a stone brain.
W (NM): But let's start from the very beginning. How did you become interested in rock and metal, and what were the main influences that led you to decide to become a singer?
DN: I started listening to music with my mother and fathers. She listened to a lot of Queen and Michael Jackson, so that's what introduced me to music. I would try to learn their backing vocals, I would try to learn to dance like Michael Jackson, and as I grew up, my cousin started showing me things like Guns N' Roses and Skidrow, and that's when I started going into rock, and then into Heavy Metal, with the people at school too. And I discovered Heavy Metal with Iron Maiden; they were the first real Metal band I knew and liked. I remember listening to Helloween at the time, I listened to their albums *The Best, The Rest, The Rare*, and I thought it was awful back then because I was used to hard rock, those simpler songs with short solos. So I listened to a song like Helloween's, with a lot of solos, and I thought, "What a messy, disorganized thing, I can't keep up with this." But as I got used to it, I started to really like Helloween, I started listening to Judas Priest, and it was love at first listen, I never stopped listening to Heavy Metal.
W (RM): Okay. Dani, let me ask you something. In all our programs, there's one thing we always try to do: unify the thing, the Metal scene. We always think that the subdivisions, the small prejudices, end up diminishing the movement that we're so passionate about. In the case of women in Heavy Metal, when we were little, when we started out, there was a certain prejudice, and sometimes we hear that it exists, sometimes we hear that it doesn't, but nobody better than you, as a woman who is at the forefront of a band, to say if this still exists, if it's over, what is this issue of prejudice against a woman in this scene like?
DN: I think that since I started, about ten years ago, there's no longer any prejudice against women in the music world. I no longer feel that thing of fans and the industry thinking "non-vocal is feminine, I don't like it." What I felt when I started was that there was prejudice against those bands with operatic vocals, especially the newer bands, not Nightwish, not Lacuna Coil, those bigger things like that…
W (DD): The others that followed in its wake.
DN: Exactly. Back then, anything with female vocals, people would dismiss it, saying things like, "It's not a Nightwish copycat band, an After Forever copycat band, so I don't want to listen to that stuff." And I think that was the biggest challenge we faced back then, which I personally faced, to prove that I was different from those other bands that were just trying to copy what was popular. But after I managed to show people that I was different, that I had my own personality, I didn't feel any more problems, quite the opposite, people... I don't know, I feel like it's the same thing, you know?
W (DD): And Dani, picking up on what you said, well… You've naturally heard our show before, and we talk and listen to music at the same time. The intro that played was "Inner Monster Out," the title track from Shadowside's latest album, which I think is great, with a lot of people participating, really cool. And I wanted you to choose a song for us to listen to, so since this episode is about women, I wanted you to choose a song from an all-female band, or a female vocalist, a song that you like, that you think would be cool to play in this episode.
DN: I really like Arch Enemy, Angela is fantastic. I like the first album with her, Wages of Sin. That album is really cool.
W (DD): Is there any specific song you'd like to hear?
DN: Ahh.. Ravenous.
W (NM): Well, that was Arch Enemy, and we were even talking about this before we started recording, but tell us a little about the importance of festivals like Flight of the Valkyries that you played in the United States, you even went to Redliners, was that in 2008?
DN: 2009? 2009 if I'm not mistaken, now you've got me.
W (NM): But only for the people who are at home…
DN: That's not true, 2008.
W (NM): …to know what it's about, it's the annual American festival where all the bands that play at the festival have female vocalists, right? There's also the female rock festival in Rio Claro. How important are these festivals to you in promoting these bands?
DN: I think it's cool that many of these bands might not have the opportunity at regular festivals, at festivals that mix genres, because there are many up-and-coming bands that might not fit into the scene of a festival that already has three or four other bands with female vocals. Not because it's a woman, but because they are even similar genres. And I think that's cool because the bands have an opportunity to appear in places they wouldn't normally have. In Rock Feminino (Female Rock), I think it's even more interesting than in The Valkyries because there has to be a woman in the band, regardless of whether she's the vocalist, and in Flight of the Valkyries it has to be a female vocalist; if there isn't a female vocalist, it doesn't matter if there's a bassist, a guitarist, it can't be a female vocalist.
W (NM): And the festival in Rio Claro has been gaining momentum, everyone's been talking about it, pretty cool, right?
DN: I think it's a very well-organized, very well-done festival. We participated one year with Shadowside, and the following year I went there just to see Girlschool. And I think the festival grows every year, I hope they don't stop, because I think the movement is excellent, regardless of whether it's with a female vocalist or a female guitarist, I think it showcases a lot of bands there.
W (RM): Dani, there are two moments in Shadowside's history that I find incredibly exciting, and there's still
a lot of story to tell. One, I think everyone talks about, is opening for Iron Maiden, and the other is with WASP in Europe. Tell us a little about those of us who didn't experience those moments, what those two experiences were like.
DN: With WASP it was actually a bit curious because we heard so many stories on the internet about Blackie Lawless and we even got a little paranoid on tour. I read a story that you couldn't look Blackie in the eyes, that he…
W (DD): Turned to stone.
DN: No, he thought it was an insult, he thought I was staring him down. And the story goes that he sent the opening band home when he looked him in the eyes. So we were so scared that we would walk past him looking at the ground. Good morning and good night, looking at the ground. And it was only halfway through the tour that we started to relax a little and say a more normal "hi" to the guy, because we were really scared of all the stories, all the tales surrounding WASP.
W (DD): But was he all that or not?
DN: No, he's a super chill guy, he's very reserved. He says hi and keeps to himself, he stays on the bus almost the whole time, but he never treated us badly, we never had any problems with him or the WASP team, and it was all good the whole time. They even helped us get visas for the UK, because we got there and had a problem at the border, and it was the WASP manager who solved the problem for us.
W (RM): And did you look him in the eyes?
DN: I looked, I looked, and he didn't even send me away, and I didn't turn to stone.
W (RM): And regarding the opening of Iron.
DN: And Iron Maiden was a dream come true, right? This was supposed to have happened in 2009 when we were invited to play with them in São Paulo, but the storm ended up keeping us away from the event, and many people even doubted that we had been invited to play that show. We were invited three days before the event back then.
W (DD): You're talking about the one at the racetrack, right?
DN: It was at the racetrack in São Paulo. We promoted that event, and then people said, "It was a lie, Shadowside wasn't going to play anything," so this time we were worried. We were called again two days before the event, and this happens because of the production, because Iron Maiden requires in their contract that there be an opening band. They want an opening band, but the production leaves it to the last minute, "If they don't demand it, let it go," but they reminded us, "We want an opening band in each city," and in Rio de Janeiro, since we were already selected at that time, we went to that event.
W (DD): And there was an adventure involved in this show too, right?
DN: Once again, two days before, and this time we said, "we're not going to disclose it."
W (DD): That's why I say, there was an adventure that day, wasn't there?
DN: There was an adventure. We were playing, and we noticed a problem right away; the barrier seemed a bit unstable, it was swaying. And when Iron Maiden came on stage, the barrier gave way and there was a sea of people rushing forward. They had to interrupt the show after a minute of stage time. Even our drummer tried to help fix the barrier so they could continue playing, but nobody could fix it.
W (DD): There's a really cool scene, for anyone who wants to see it, Bruce is sitting in front of the drums explaining to the audience that everyone should leave because the next day…
W (NM): With a translator by my side.
DN: But it really seems like every time you get Shadowside and Iron Maiden together, something happens.
W (DD): Something is trembling. It's a very large conjunction of factors.
W (RM): You guys were afraid of WASP, look, Iron Maiden is even scarier, huh?
W (DD): But the show itself was amazing, right? There are a lot of videos of you guys at that show.
DN: It was. It was wonderful.
W (DD): The audience response was great, right?
DN: We had an idea that the audience would receive us well because we had already done one in Rio de Janeiro with Helloween. So there were quite a few people there who already knew us, but of course most of the audience was there to hear Iron Maiden, so it's always a challenge to go on stage and be directly compared to the biggest idol of most of the people who were there and the band that people paid to see and were anxious to see, right? So it's always a somewhat dangerous situation for the opening band, but it was wonderful. From the beginning they were there rocking out, enjoying themselves, it was phenomenal.
Doro paved the way for women in metal because she must have suffered a lot of prejudice back then.”
W (NM): Dani, getting back to our conversation, if you could choose the most important female rocker, or metalhead, or rock singer of all time—we all have a favorite idol—who would it be?
DN: Idol in Metal or in rock in general?
W (DD): Whatever you want.
DN: In Metal, it has to be Doro, right? She paved the way, even though she wasn't an influence on me, because I started singing way before I knew about these things, you know? So I only heard about Doro long after I heard about Nightwish, I started on the wrong side, but I think she really opened doors for women in Metal because she must have suffered a lot of prejudice back then, she must have faced a market completely closed to women, so I see her as an example.
W (RM): And what do you think about Amy Lee's vocals from Evanescence?
DN: I like her voice. I have the first album, the first full-length Evanescence album because they have others before it. I thought it was really cool. I liked it when I first heard it. Actually, I didn't like the band when I first heard them, but I listened to the music video so much on the Sony channel that I think I ended up liking them and I bought the album. I think the album is very solid, very interesting. Then I stopped following them, but I think she's a good vocalist, yes.
W (NM): Cool. I was quite surprised, I'd never seen them play live before, and at the Rock in Rio show I thought the band was really heavy. She's with a completely new band, right? And the guys are totally Metal, and the musicians playing with her, so I think that also makes the band heavier, right?
W (DD): Hey Dani, we interviewed Amy Lee, we asked her how she felt about being on the cover of the calendar that Revolver Magazine releases every year, the "Hottest Chicks in Metal" calendar, and Amy Lee is on it this year, and she said she thinks it's cool, that if it's something that helps her band, she's willing to do it. I wanted to hear your opinion on that and if you would do it.
DN: Yes, I would do it. I would do it because I don't think there's anything wrong with it, it's not erotic or sensual, there's no reason not to do it. It's just a band photo, so there's no problem at all. I think it's cool, especially since Revolver also does The Hottest Dude in Rock and Metal, so I think it's interesting. I think people like looking at other people, so there's no reason not to do it.
W (DD): And it's more about publicity, right?
DN: And girls have been talking about guys since the '80s, right? So it's normal for guys to talk about women too. It's promotion, I think everything is valid as long as bands don't base themselves solely on that. Bands that only focus on looks will eventually die out, and the bands that really make music stay around even when they get old. You can look at Cristina Scabbia, I think she's been around for over forty years already. I even did something like that with Amy Lee; they even had a vote on a Costa Rican website, and the public chose the women they wanted in the calendar. There's Cristina Scabbia, there's Floor from ReVamp, there's Anneke from The Gathering, there are more people there that I can't remember right now, but…
W (DD): But the important thing is that it has Dani Nolden from Shadowside.
DN: Me too. And the calendar is really nice, very tasteful, I think people will like it, especially since it's free, anyone who wants to can go there and download it…
W (DD): Is it available yet?
DN: It's available. It's on the band's Facebook page, people can download it from there.
W (RM): Dani, in Brazil, other music styles, from MPB to Axé music, have many female vocalists, many strong women who are respected within their respective fields, within music. Not counting women in Metal, of these other singers, you can choose any one you'd like to see singing Metal or even collaborating with you on a Shadowside song…
DN: Can she be killed? Cássia Eller.
W (RM): Cássia Eller, oh that's great.
W (NM): I've seen Cássia Eller's show too, it was rock'n'roll.
DN: She was pure attitude.
W (NM): I'm not going to say it was Metal, but it was rock'n'roll, and good rock at that.
W (DD): And her show at Rock in Rio was almost Metal, you know.
DN: She could easily play Metal.
W (NM): And she had a really cool band, they were guys with long hair, I think they were even musicians who must have played Metal at some point... They were two guitarists with long hair and they played kind of Metal...
W (RM): When you said "she could be killed," I thought, "Is it possible to kill one of them?" You could kill half a dozen... Ivete Sangalo...
DN: Those don't count, right?
W (NM): But there are even worse ones than Ivete Sangalo, right?
W (RM): Yes, yes. Let's not even talk about it.
W (NM): Okay, the traditional Wikimetal question: What song can't you control yourself when you hear it, wherever you are, for us to listen to now on the show?
DN: This is Trigger by In Flames.
W (NM): Dani, tell me something, you already have interesting experience outside of Brazil, in your opinion what are the biggest difficulties and challenges for you touring abroad, and what are the main differences between the American and European markets?
DN: The difficulty in doing a tour like this is the distance we're from, so it's very expensive for a Brazilian band to get to Europe. We're constantly at a disadvantage compared to them because someone in Germany can get to Finland in a few hours. So we have this problem, this difficulty here in Brazil, so anything we do has to be very well planned so we don't lose money and end up having problems, like we did during the European tour when our bus broke down in the middle of the tour, and we ended up having to cancel two or three shows.
W (NM): Where was this?
DN: It was in France, we were half an hour from the city of the first show, luckily it ended up being canceled because the promoter hadn't provided equipment for us, and WASP canceled because of us. So at least the disaster wasn't that big, but it was a challenge to face snow for the first time, driving in the snow, and as Brazilians who don't experience the cold or snow here, we had a little trouble there. So sometimes you have to deal with a bit of a language barrier too, especially in Eastern Europe, where nobody speaks English, so you have to manage to communicate both with the audience and with anything you need, whether it's food or asking for information, but you end up managing, right? Several times we got stuck in the snow, once we were stuck five minutes from the venue, and we had to get there to do the soundcheck, otherwise we would have been cut from the show. And five minutes from the house, we knew where it was, we had already asked for directions to get there, and we couldn't get out of the snow, and then a guy showed up, we don't know where he came from, with a car mat to put under our tires so we could get out, move on.
W (DD): That's a great clip, huh? That's a music video.
DN: It's a book, it's a music video. We even kept a diary there, the drummer kept a diary with all these stories. And these are some of the difficulties, it's mostly a logistical issue, because the audience, the market is phenomenal. I felt like I was in Brazil, I would feel like I was here in Brazil if it weren't for the completely different language, because the audience is passionate, they receive us very well. Even in places where I thought they would be kind of cold, like in the United Kingdom, but they were phenomenal, screaming from beginning to end, and then being very receptive as well.
The problem here in Brazil isn't the public's fault. The fault lies with amateur promoters
W (NM): And how does that compare to the United States?
DN: Americans are quite different. I'm not saying they're colder, but they're more controlled, so they watch the show, they headbang discreetly, tap their feet, clap their hands, the women dance…they really dance! Even during our heavier songs, they climb that pole, the pole dance, and they really dance. And it's interesting, but then you know they enjoyed the show when they come to talk to you, like you, when an American likes something they buy everything, they're very consumerist. So if you have a Shadowside mug there, they want it. They'll leave everything they have in their pockets…
W (DD): And merchandising sells well there.
DN: They sell, they really do. They'll take anything you have on the table. That's how you measure it in the United States; Europeans come to talk to us, they come to talk more than Americans do.
W (NM): How many tours have you done outside of Brazil, Dani?
DN: There were five tours to the United States, and two in Spain, one in Bosnia and Romania, and the fourth time was with WASP, making seventeen countries.
W (RM): Speaking of Romania, I read on your website that it was at Count Dracula's castle, even the Irishman Bram Stoker used it as a setting to write the Dracula novel, and so I wanted to ask: did it have a different vibe, more Metal, and even a joke you made that the audience was very euphoric, that they banged their heads a lot and that the next day everyone would have a sore neck. I said, "well, a sore neck and Dracula go well together." What was it like to perform in such a memorable place?
DN: It's actually the castle that really belonged to Vlad Tepes. He spent three months there during the war against the Turks, using it to observe when the Turks were approaching. So it's not just a matter of legend, but it's truly historical. The castle is marvelous, the stage was right in front of the castle's staircase, so it's a fantastic setting for a metal show. It was very well organized, there were stalls selling things, a guy was making glass sculptures, he was making little bats. So it was really cool, they organized a presentation with vampires there for all the bands, the German consul was there, so it was a very special festival indeed.
W (DD): You just spoke almost like a tourist getting to know things, do you have time for all these trips and tours?
DN: No, normally there isn't enough time. On the WASP tour, we'd play one day and wake up the next day in another country. We traveled in a minibus with sleeper berths because the distances were very long, and with the snow you have to drive slower, so there was no way around it. If we stayed overnight in that city, we wouldn't even be able to get there the next day. So we'd sleep and only wake up hearing the other language. So it's good when there are festivals with more spaced-out schedules like the one in Bosnia or Romania, because then we can get to know the place a little. In Bosnia, it was cool that the show was broadcast to 250,000 people on television, and the next day we were walking down the street with people calling out to us. It was a little difficult to do sightseeing, but it was great.
W (DD): Dani, you've already done five international tours, several important shows, and ten years of career with Shadowside. If you could choose one point in your career that was a high point that moves you, that makes you say,
"Wow..."
W (DD): The moment, if you had to choose the moment. Which moment would it be?
DN: It would be the first time we played outside of Brazil, which was when we won a contest on a website, Air Play Direct, where more than a thousand bands entered. Only one song could compete, and we entered with "Highlight." I entered the band without telling anyone; I didn't expect us to win, so I entered us because it didn't cost anything, "why not?" But since part of the prize was playing at the Indianapolis Metal Fest, I imagined we didn't even have a chance. I imagined a band from there would win because of the proximity, right? Then suddenly one fine day, they send me an email: "You won. Do you want to play at the Indianapolis Metal Fest?" And when we got there, there were about five or ten people watching the band that was going to play two bands before us. There were ten people in the bar at most; it was a bar for about 500 or 600 people. Empty, empty. Five people in front of the stage and the bar staff…
W (DD): It's a dog.
DN: There wasn't a dog, look… But almost. There could have been a rat there, I don't know. But we stayed in the corner waiting, thinking, "Wow, we traveled all this way to play for five people, right?", but then we got together and said, "We're going to play the same show as always, as if there were 10,000 people, it doesn't matter. These five people are here to see us." The next band had three people, and the audience started to dwindle, and we were like, "Okay, right? What can we do?". But then, when it was our turn to start setting things up, we went to the dressing room and started setting everything up on stage, and suddenly we saw that the place was filling up. And people started coming in, and it kept getting full, and suddenly the place was packed. We didn't understand why. And then we found out, because the promoter was talking about the festival, and it was posted on the door that Shadowside do Brasil was going to play at the Indianapolis Metal Fest.
W (DD): That's great. And that attracted a lot of people?
DN: A lot of people were curious, and everyone wanted to see the band from Brazil. And that was really cool, the audience received us wonderfully well, it was the best possible experience, right? And our first international experience was there.
W (DD): Let's listen to Highlight, the song that got you there?
DN: Let's go.
W (DD): Well, that was a highlight from Theatre Of Shadows, Shadowside's first full-length album.
W (NM): Dani, I saw that you gave a very insightful statement regarding that famous video of Edu Falaschi. We've already spoken with several people about it, even with some guests from outside Brazil asking what the scene is like in other countries…
W (DD): If this phenomenon also occurs, where the local audience doesn't support local bands as much.
W (NM): In short, we obviously support Edu in that we also believe fans should attend the shows, we just don't think he was happy with how he did it, anyway I wanted you to talk a little about what you think about this subject.
DN: Well, the problem here in Brazil, as I've already said, is there a problem? Yes, of course there is. But I think the fault isn't with the audience, I think the fault lies, as I said before, with the amateur promoters, because the guy isn't going to want to leave home, even if the ticket is cheap, he's not going to want to leave home to hear nothing but noise, to hear a band playing that he can't understand anything about besides the drums. So how do you play? How does a band present a show like that? How do you convince the audience to come back a second time for a show like that? And now we're going to have to start working to show the public that the shows have quality, because they've already gotten used to Brazilian shows, to underground shows, not having quality.
W (DD): And only shows by foreign bands have quality.
DN: Exactly. He sees a show by a foreign band, even a small foreign band, he sees top-notch equipment, he sees the band on an excellent stage, he sees wonderful lighting, and then he compares it to a national band. The guy doesn't have to understand why this happens, he just knows, as a layman, as a music fan, he knows that the national sound isn't as good as the foreign sound.
W (RM): And often the promotion fails too, right? They don't promote it and the guy has to keep chasing after the band he likes, doesn't he?
DN: Nowadays, we rely too much on Facebook advertising. The promoter puts the flyer on their Facebook page, tags half a dozen people, and thinks they've promoted an event. But it doesn't work that way.
W (DD): And I also don't know if you think this also contributes to the problem, we were doing some work the other day, which had been requested of us, and up until November, when we did this survey, up until November 2011, 120 international bands had played here in São Paulo. 120 bands in 360 days is one international band every three days. On top of that, you consider the national bands, where does the artist go? With what money does the artist go?
DN: Exactly. People don't have money for everything, not even for international trips.
W (RM): And there's no time either, right? People have other commitments, don't they?
DN: In Santos, for example, if there isn't a show on Saturday, nobody goes. So the audience doesn't have money, they don't have time, the quality is usually not the same, so all these things influence it. I think they do influence it, I even think that international bands are suffering from this. Ten years ago, any international band would play to seven thousand people in São Paulo, nowadays it's already dropping to two thousand, a thousand people. There are bands that play to less than 200.
W (RM): And we had examples of international bands with the venue practically empty.
W (DD): Is there any light at the end of the tunnel?
DN: I don't know if there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
W (DD): There is a train coming.
DN: Yeah, because I think a lot of people want opening bands to pay to play, and that's not right. In the United States, what we see is exactly the opposite; every festival, every big band show, always has a local band opening, regardless of what happens, the promoter always puts on a local band. So that's how it should be. I even understand that some bands want to pay to play, because it's difficult nowadays to find your space, and sometimes that temptation to play in front of a lot of people is too great. But the internet is there, you can get wherever you want.
My favorite Shadowside song is Angels With Horns. It's very special to me because we made it as a band and it has everything I've always wanted to put into a song.”
W (DD): Wikimetal is an example of this.
DN: Wikimetal is a great example of that. I think nowadays it's not worth recording a whole album right when you start, maybe two or three songs with excellent quality, and releasing them on the internet. Let it roll because I think bands are also fighting too much with MP3s, right? I honestly think that the audience that really likes, that enjoys a band, will buy the CD. Sometimes they prefer to wait for a show in their city to buy the CD directly from the band, but I think if someone likes the band, they'll download it and sooner or later they'll buy a CD, a t-shirt. So I think that bands that are starting now shouldn't worry about immediate profit, they should worry more about putting out there, spreading the music and getting new fans, getting engaged fans who want to help promote the music too. I think that's the best thing we have today, and that will continue to exist more and more in the future, the free exchange of information; you can't separate it from that now.
W (RM): Dani, regardless of the medium, whether it's MP3, CD, or vinyl, what song are you most proud of, that we can listen to right now, that Shadowside has on their CDs, that you guys like to play live? What song do you say, "Damn, I'm so proud to sing this song, to be in a band that has this song"? Request it, announce it so we can play it right away.
DN: My favorite song from Shadowside is Angels With Horns. That song is very special to me because we made it as a band and it has everything I've always wanted to put into a song.
W (NM): Well, we just heard Angels With Horns, is that you Angels With Horns?
DN: It's me, Angels With Horns, an exaggerated version of myself.
W (NM): Actually, this is the song that has the music video from the album, it's the single from the album Inner Monster Out, and we always say here at Wikimetal, "dude, if you like the band, the best way you can help is either by going to a show, or buying a t-shirt, or buying a CD, or buying the music online," in other words, if you like the band, do one of these things or do all three because that's really how you're helping this band continue working and continue doing shows, and we can't keep saying that only foreign bands put on good shows anymore, because here in Brazil, for more than twenty years, Brazilian bands have sometimes been superior to bands from abroad, on tours in Europe, on tours in Japan, in Australia, whether it's Sepultura, Angra, or so many other bands… Shadowside has already toured abroad five times, we can't let Shadowside become a foreign band, we have to make Shadowside tour in Brazil, we have a huge country, full of cool cities, full of audiences, and it's absurd that these guys do five tours abroad. From Brazil, and to go so long without playing in Porto Alegre.
W (RM): Hey Dani, just so you know, when you get there, there's not a little shop, not a hat, nothing... Even I, who loves it, always buys something whenever there's something, for example, Korzus is a band that's always there. Does Shadowside have that? Is there a website? How does it work, even for the fans?
DN: Yes, we do, and it's been a concern for the band from the beginning, especially since we were born in the middle of this MP3 revolution. So we can't just rely on music sales; the fan who likes the band wants to wear their shirt, literally. They want to have something, even if it's just a souvenir. If they don't have the money to buy the CD, they'll buy a keychain, anything. But the fan wants to have something from the band; they want to say, "Look, I'm a fan of this band," so I think it's important. I think bands that don't do this are depriving the fan of having the thing they like so much. I think it's cool.
W (NM): Let's go, even though it wasn't in our plan, but should we send a hug to Fábio, Rafael, and Ricardo?
W (DD): The other members of Shadowside, right?
W (NM): The males of Shadowside.
DN: There are controversies because they take longer in the shower than I do, so…
W (NM): And what about the hair? Tell me about it.
DN: Fábio doesn't leave the house without brushing his hair; he doesn't brush it, but he dries it nicely, he takes care of that long hair of his.
W (DD): You're revealing the guy's dirty secrets, right?
DN: I have to take advantage of the fact that they're not here, because otherwise I'd be the one getting teased.
W (DD): We're going to do a Men in Metal event and invite the three of them.
W (NM): We're already here, but a lot of questions are coming to mind. Talk a little about the Santos scene, because I have a special affection for the Santos scene because when I started playing, in Exhort, we did a show at Circo Marinho which was on Ana Costa, right? Were you at that show in '87?
W (DD): I went to that show and I was a roadie for Viper at several shows at Circo Marinho.
W (NM): I had a band that I liked at the time, called Angel, and Lone Dover was kind of a Manowar-esque vocalist. I remember the guys were super nice, when we went there we stayed at their house, and a great friend of ours, Pepinho Macia, owned a headbanger hangout in Santos in the 80s, I don't know until when, called Metal Rock & Cia…
W (DD): Metal Rock & Cia, famous store.
W (NM): Was it located on Ana Costa Street?
W (DD): No, in a small dish.
W (NM): On a side street off Ana Costa. It's a really cool city. How's Santos doing? We hope it will once again become an important hub for Metal.
DN: It's sad because I've never heard of anything you're talking about. It's sad because the Santos music scene practically doesn't exist anymore. The last place bands had to play, which wasn't all that great to begin with, it was very improvised, the guy was doing it for the love of it, out of passion for the style, and that's gone too, the city hall doesn't allow anything. There was a really cool place on Rua Quinze where bands played outdoors, but other bars started causing problems and they shut that down too. So today new bands can't get noticed, they have nowhere to play. When we play in Santos, we have to play in alternative venues. We can play in some places, but only because they know we'll bring a crowd… 300, 400 people, but what is a new band that doesn't have a proven track record going to do? Where are they going to play? How are they going to get a Saturday night gig, which has to be on a Saturday in Santos, how are they going to get a gig on a Saturday night, and get rid of the funk, the axé, or that kind of stuff from there?
W (NM): Cover band.
DN: Cover band. So the scene in Santos is pretty complicated. There are bands, but everyone's stuck there, right? You have to leave the city to be able to do anything, and the Santos audience that likes Metal doesn't even know the bands from there exist.
W (NM): And I ended up talking about Santos, sorry for the sacrilege here, I didn't mention the great Vulcano, did I?
W (DD): Vulcano, of course. And since you're talking so much about Santos, Dani, tell us what it was like to have the honor of wearing the most glorious jersey in history? You were the one who wore that jersey.
W (NM): Is she from São Paulo?
DN: I am a São Paulo fan.
W (DD): But you wore a Santos shirt.
DN: I wore the Santos jersey. I played for Santos for six months, we always accompanied the professional team on tours, they took us along to be with the group, right? It was really cool. It was a very close-knit group, unfortunately it didn't last long. Now I think the Santos management has started to take women's football seriously, but back then we couldn't even train at the training center. We trained in a separate area, but it was cool because it was Santos, right?
W (DD): But did you like playing soccer?
DN: I loved playing, but I ended up choosing music. It got to a point where I either trained every day or dedicated myself to the band, so… I got injured once during training, and I had to be out for two or three weeks, and I missed all that pre-season training they were doing, so I was going to have to do it all over again, and I thought, “Oh no. I like music better anyway.” So I left the team.
W (DD): And he hung up his boots?
DN: I hung up my soccer cleats, I hung up my futsal shoes, and I dedicated myself solely to music.
W (NM): And he still plays, just like that?
DN: It's been a long time since I played.
W (NM): In the band, who plays better, you or the guys?
DN: I think it's me. Rafael is a goalkeeper, he was also a goalkeeper for Santos' youth teams. So he's not a contender, he doesn't count. The others are just terrible players…
W (NM): Are you the second best player on Shadowside?
DN: I think so.
W (DD): Women dominating not only Metal, but football as well.
W (NM): Football… Who would have thought?
DN: The problem is that guys are afraid to play with women, and I grew up playing with boys, but the guys today, I don't know, it seems like they're afraid to play with women, "no, I'll hurt you." So I can't find anyone to play soccer with me.
W (NM): I've heard several interviews with you, Dani, where you talk about some really cool things regarding the songwriting and production process of Inner Monster Out. Could you tell us a little about how that process was?
DN: This was the first time we risked doing everything as a band, that the group did everything together, everything! Rafael and I each brought half of the initial ideas for the album, but none of our songs stayed exactly as they were in our demos. I tweaked guitar riffs, Rafael tweaked vocals, Fábio tweaked the song structure, he tweaked the guitar too, so everyone tweaked everything. We created the songs with the ideas we brought, we created new things. "Waste Of Life," which is one of my favorite songs on the album, was born from a chorus that I didn't know what to do with, from a riff that Rafael had, and that we didn't know what to do with either. We put the two together, Ricardo helped with some melodies in the middle, some arrangements, Fábio said, "I always wanted a song that started directly with the vocals," and that's how the song began. And suddenly, in fifteen minutes, we had one of the best songs on the album. So I think that was interesting for us because it really gave Shadowside its identity; we brought all our influences. I thought that was good because it didn't just sound like one band member, it wasn't someone's solo work, and it wasn't a copy of our personal influences. It was a mix of everything: our personalities, everything we learned, without deviating from what the band had intended from the beginning, which was to make a very energetic Heavy Metal, with a lot of melody, catchy, those easy-to-remember choruses, but not simplistic. We wanted to make it a little more complex, but without being too complicated. So I think it's an album we can be very proud of. And we lived in the studio for three weeks. During those three weeks, Fredrik had specific working hours; he arrived at 9 am and left at 5 pm, always sharp, but we could stay and mess around in the studio, even on the weekends when he wasn't there working. We'd just play around in the studio, messing with guitar arrangements. So, a lot of the things he told us to change, we would experiment with and create during those hours, during the early morning hours... we spent many nights making music.
W (NM): It's like a Disneyland, right?
DN: That was phenomenal. We were always just a door away from the studio, and it has a structure, a real house… It has beds, a bathroom, a kitchen, and we lived there for three weeks. For me, as a vocalist, it was phenomenal because I was used to recording in São Paulo, and for me, living in Santos, it was always a hassle to travel sometimes two or three hours depending on the traffic, to go and come back. I'd arrive already tired, and by the time the recording was over I was already fed up. Sometimes there were mistakes, but I was too tired and thought, "Let's leave it like that, it's good, it's enough." And this time I recorded for six hours straight and thought, "Is it over already?", "Is that enough?", "Let's do a little more," because I didn't have any work to do. I sang barefoot as if I were singing in my bedroom. It was super comfortable, I don't see myself recording any differently in the future.
W (DD): And since you've talked so much about Waste Of Life, shall we listen?
DN: Let's listen to Waste Of Life, my second favorite track from the album Inner Monster Out.
W (RM): We're back from Shadowside's Waste Of Life.
W (DD): What does that mean in Portuguese?
W (RM): Waste of life.
W (NM): Got the cheat sheet here from Dani Nolden.
DN: That doesn't count.
W (RM): Dani, it was great having you here with us, the show was amazing, with so many participants…
W (NM): I've never seen them behave so well, honestly.
W (RM): And it's a real honor, as we said or as Nando said, we want Shadowside to spread our Metal around the world, but we're proud that it's a Brazilian band, and that we Brazilians can see Shadowside in good places, with good sound, and we hope for that.
W (DD): Before handing the microphone to Dani, I just wanted to repeat what I said at the beginning of the episode, which is that for me she is the greatest Heavy Metal vocalist.
DN: I'm very happy with everything you're saying, it's an honor for me to be here with you. I consider Wikimetal one of the best programs out there; you always put up a lot of cool stuff.
W (DD): Can you hear me?
DN: I listened, I listened to that episode of Mulheres too, the first one. And I feel super proud to be here, I also don't want to leave Brazil aside, quite the contrary, I would really like to even out the numbers, we did more than 80 shows abroad and here in Brazil it's difficult to even reach twenty. So that's sad for us. I would really like to play more often here in Brazil, the public always asks for it, and it hurts me to say "I don't have anything scheduled for this city".
W (DD): You heard Karen's example during our program, asking.
DN: A lot of people in Porto Alegre, Curitiba, and the Northeast have been asking for a long time, Manaus has been asking for a long time, Goiânia too, and we can't make anything happen. Sometimes the producer even schedules it, but at the last minute they cancel. So I would really like to even out the numbers, and I hope that happens this year. Anyone who wants to talk to us, we have the website Shadowside.ws, there you'll find all the links to Facebook, Twitter, contact information for shows, contact with the band, and we're always online too… we're a modern band. And we're always in contact with the fans as well.
W (DD): Dani just tweeted, while she was coming here, that she was coming to meet Wikimetal.
DN: I tweeted, I Facebooked, I do everything.
W (DD): That's great. And as far as Wikimetal is concerned, we'll try to help make more shows happen here in Brazil.
DN: The more the merrier. We're a band that lives on the road.
W (DD): That's it. Dani, thank you!
W (NM): Dani Nolden on Wikimetal!